Here's what Occupy demonstrators want - Hi-Desert Star: Opinion

Here's what Occupy demonstrators want

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Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:58 am

After reading opinion after opinion regarding the Occupy Wall Street movement, the single most asked question is, "What do they want?"

Further criticism is leveled by a disdainful media that continually repeats, "They have no leaders, no plan, no structure and no purpose."

Well, here is that one thing that everyone wants to know about and which seems to appear on signs and flyers at nearly all occupy standoffs:

"We want just one thing:

"Restoration of a living wage.

"Single-payer health care.

"Guaranteed living wage regardless of employment.

"Free college education.

"Replace fossil fuel economy with renewable energy.

"A one-trillion-dollar investment in infrastructure, rail, roads, bridges and grid.

"A one-trillion-dollar investment in ecological restoration and decommissioning of all nuclear power plants.

"Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

"Open borders.

"Paper ballots to be counted and recounted by hand under international standards of free and fair elections.

"Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all.

"Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

"The right of all workers to unionize and participate in collective bargaining."

But to me, as I watch big, strong policemen unleash pepper spray into the faces of young women and other big, strong policemen grab women by their throats and throw them to the ground where they punch and kick them into submission, I think there is something else that needs to be asked. What, for example, is it that has policemen storm a line of Veterans For Peace, throw the American flag to the ground and shoot other unarmed, peacefully assembled vets in the face with rubber bullets?

Judging by the violence done to American citizens by those who are sworn to protect them, it would seem that all protest, dissent and the right to assemble are now to be considered unAmerican, inconsistent with American values and highly unpatriotic. But for whose America? Perhaps #OccupyMarines will have some answers.

Tom Loret

Twentynine Palms

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  • desertgal posted at 12:04 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    desertgal Posts: 91 said it all....again. I think they are a little frightened that there are so many of us. They kind of hoped we'd go away after a while. they haven't seen anything yet.

  • damndawgers posted at 11:38 am on Wed, Nov 2, 2011.

    damndawgers Posts: 529

    "To protect n serve", yeah right, when the law enforcers are the one's to be protected from, folks we have a problem. A statement made in print by a police chief Robles, desert hot springs paper, stated, "MY MEN ARE TRAINED TO TERMINATE, THEY ARE NOT HERE TO PROTECT AND SERVE!", fortunately he's not on the force anymore. TERMINATE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IS FINAL I WOULD SAY.
    It really sucks that we have to go through having to demonstrate what starts out peacefully and ends up a war between citizen's and cops, who thanks to us have a paycheck, while most of us don't. Only to fight for the rights we once had. Government needs to pay more attention to us instead of the almighty buck.
    My opinion only, i feel eventually we are going to be at war with our own.
    Walk beside each other all as one, without violence, is not going to happen, law enforcement n govt. won't allow it to happen that way. Respectfully, dawgers.

  • Desertben posted at 3:46 pm on Tue, Nov 1, 2011.

    Desertben Posts: 426

    To Tom Loret

    I don’t recall saying any of your suggestions were not worth comment. To most of what you write I find myself in agreement.

    As for my not being clear about any proposal, I must admit that it takes more than a 300 word essay to explain how a government is formed and functions, especially when it is so different from that which we are accustomed.

    As I said, the concepts are not difficult to understand, but their difference from what we have may take some adjusting time.

    As for the booklet, I will let that speak for itself. I do, however, need an address to send to, since it is not a download.

  • tomloret posted at 7:04 am on Tue, Nov 1, 2011.

    tomloret Posts: 411

    I believe that your intentions are sincere and put forth to help clarify a troubled world. But to me, your approach is inside out. You imply that the reader is too dumb to understand what you will not explain. How is this any different from any other mystical or misbegotten ideology perpetrated upon a subjected people by an autocratic dictator?

    Your plan suggests that I can't give to or receive from my neighbor or friends or family because only the state shall own and give all things?

    What are you going to send me, Mao's Little Red Book or the Gideon's Bible Society Plan for World Domination? I say all this not to be snarky, but to illustrate what can happen when you leave things to the imagination.

    Ok. The proposals I put forth do not even rate comment. That's fine. I'll do what I can to understand what you are pointing to.

  • Desertben posted at 4:51 pm on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Desertben Posts: 426

    My mistake Tom, the address I gave you wont work as I thought it might.
    I would need a mailing address, if you would care to give it to me, my e-mail address is

  • Desertben posted at 3:42 pm on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Desertben Posts: 426

    Tom Loret,
    When I wrote that you attributed the list to the “OWS” demonstrators, I meant that the list was their’s, and I was taking exception with their–not your–“fair and living wage.” I should have begun my comment by thanking you for making their wants clear.

    In reply to your question about equal income:
    Yes, equal income for al citizens, including Men, women, and children. Women may choose to work full or part-time. Mothers will receive full income. Income, incidently will be paid by the month, and if not needed or spent within that time, it would remain with the state.

    Egalitarianism does not work with differences in income.

    There would be no money transactions between people. The state would be the soul supplier of goods, and services. It would also be the soul distributor of income.

    Egalitarianism is not easy to understand. Not because the concepts are difficult, but because we live in a world of scarcity and think of things in those terms. In some ways it is like a three dimensional world explaining things to a two dimensional world. Egalitarianism is a whole new ball game.

    If you would go to this address, I will see that you get a free e-book that covers egalitarianism concepts, including explanations of how it might work:

    There are many other sources, but I believe this handbook to be the most concise.

    When the state is really competent, honest, and for the people, then many things become better and possible. I hope you will use the above address.

  • tomloret posted at 5:16 am on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    tomloret Posts: 411


    Thank you for taking the time to contribute to the dialogue. I agree with your general direction but get lost in your details.

    Firstly, it is not me who attributes the list of demands of #OccupyWallstreet. It is what is presented on their website and made available to all who assemble in the name of free speech and the right to redress government.

    Secondly, I detect what I think to be a glitch in your economic model. I do not understand what you mean by "equal income." Is an eighteen year old who does yard work to get the same income as a neurosurgeon with a wife and three children to support?

    Rather, it seems to me that in an egalitarian society, one of, for, and by the people, that the egalitarian part would be expressed through a government that provides equality of service and opportunity rather than strictly income. For example, if the following industries that provide for basic human necessities were nationalized: banking, education, health care, war making industries, transportation and telecommunications, then private income would not be indexed to the exploitation and misery of others. You know, instead of a health care CEO waking away with ten billion dollars in salary and benefits while their "insured" go without treatment...those billions would go to treat the people who need care and not into the pockets of predatory capitalists.

    Then, freed from the rigors of survival, private innovation and the entrepreneurial spirit would flourish without the squelching monopolies of greed, scarcity, and the violence done to life, the planet and our common future. And by monopolies, I mean both secular and so-called sacred.

  • Desertben posted at 9:50 pm on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Desertben Posts: 426

    Mr. Tom Loret, While I agree with most of the listed “wants,” which you attribute to the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators . I would have to qualify some of the items in the list, but the one with which I take issue is the “fair and/or living wage.”

    Under our current circumstances these are good goals, and worthy of contemplation. My preference is, however, for equal income for all. Why? Let me try to explain:

    Certainly, people are not equally productive. They are not equally intelligent or strong. Their desires and wishes are not equal, nor are their ambitions.

    There is one way people are equal, and that is in their needs (allowing for unequal needs of sick and handicapped). A fair and living wage may accomplish that need. But “fair and living wage” would not accomplish several of the goals which you list.

    An equal wage , alone, would accomplish many of the listed goals .

    It would greatly reduce crime.

    It would end the gap between rich and poor.

    It would make capitalism impossible, ending all the unfairness and dishonesty that capitalism nourishers.

    It would assure honesty in industry and in government.
    (e.g., which would you trust, a politician who has ulterior motives for wealth, or one with no such ulterior motives?)

    It would eliminate the “union-like warfare” between capital and lavor. Both would
    become workers for the whole society.

    It would go a long way in reducing wars, and savin our environment.

    Of course, equal income is no single panacea. It would require organization and regulatory rules, or laws. Egalitarians are working on those that would maintain the rights and freedoms that rational Americans have fought so long to accomplish.

    There are many in our society who are content to do nothing about the evil one sees around us, believing that some religious fairytale will posthumously make things right.

    Plainly, you do not belong to that group, and thankfully, there are many of us who do not.

    So, Tom Loret, it may sometimes appear that we are losing the battle, but let me borrow a nautical (1813) quote from the dying James Lawrence, “Don’t give up the ship.”


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